Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Overcoming hindrance


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Fri, 29 May 2020 #1
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 190 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti, quote of the day for May 29, 2020, from Group Discussion 13th November, 1947 | Madras, India:

You cannot overcome a hindrance; the hindrance has to be understood by approaching it without condemnation, without judging, without a desire to alter it.

Did K live this? Did K encounter a hindrance and never do anything about it? No, he acted.

Take the Theosophical Order of the Star. It was set up for K to be the World Teacher. It was oriented toward following a path or paths to the truth. K acted. He dissolved the Order of the Star. He made a statement that "Truth is a Pathless Land." He overcame a hindrance.

Did he first understand it, "without condemnation, without judging, without a desire to alter it?" Perhaps so. But eventually, action was.

Take the situation with Rajagopal. Did he just live with and understand the situation? He eventually acted to remove Rajagopal as editor and manager. Lawsuits followed. But the point is he didn't just stay with a hindrance without acting. At some point there was action.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 29 May 2020.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #2
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3498 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Take the situation with Rajagopal. Did he just live and understand the situation? He eventually acted to remove Rajagopal as editor and manager. Lawsuits followed. But the point is he didn't just stay with a hindrance without acting. At some point there was action.

Right. But the action flowed from understanding. Or we might assume so. No way to tell for sure, obviously.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #3
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 190 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Right. But the action flowed from understanding.

Whether the action flowed from understanding, whether the seeing was the action, or whatever, he didn't just stay with the hindrance forever and ever. There was action. He did something about it.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 29 May 2020.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #4
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3498 posts in this forum Offline

Where in the excerpt did he say that you don't take action at all....just stay with the hindrance?

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #5
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 190 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Where in the excerpt did he say that you don't take action at all....just stay with the hindrance?

He does not say that you don't take action. But I have heard, in this forum, what to me is a misinterpretation of his teaching. That misinterpretation is that any action is escape. Any action is an attempt to overcome without staying with. But K does act in his life. K does overcome hindrance. My whole point is that there is action with understanding.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 29 May 2020.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #6
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3498 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
My whole point is that there is action with understanding.

Indeed. what's mostly lacking is understanding however. There's plenty of action in the world of man. Conflicted action...divisive action...violent action...you know the rest.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #7
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 190 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
What's mostly lacking is understanding however. There's plenty of action in the world of man. Conflicted action...

Yes. But is understanding perpetual, passive inaction? To me, that is just a different kind of misunderstanding. In the fullness of understanding, action is.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 29 May 2020.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #8
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3498 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
But is understanding perpetual, passive inaction?

No of course not. Action from understanding is K's the seeing is the acting, I think.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #9
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 190 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
No of course not. Action from understanding is K's the seeing is the acting, I think.

In addition to "the seeing is the acting," K also teaches "action without idea" and "transformation." These are active, not passive, even while arising from insight rather than thought. And really, they are three different ways of saying the same thing: the situation itself, when illuminated with clear awareness, gives rise to immediate action, without the involvement of thought.

But I don't think we should say, "Of course." Because K does say: Don't escape. Don't "desire to alter" the situation. Be aware and stay with. It is all too easy to conclude, mistakenly, that there is then no action.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 29 May 2020.

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Fri, 29 May 2020 #10
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3498 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
And really, they are three different ways of saying the same thing: the situation itself, when illuminated with clear awareness, gives rise to immediate action, without the involvement of thought.

Immediate and choiceless action, yes. Not acting in conformity to thought or goal or motive.

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Sat, 30 May 2020 #11
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5970 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote #7:
In the fullness of understanding, action is.

Isn't this the answer to your own original question, Id? One stays with hindrance until there is full understanding (is this an example of seeing 'the whole' of the hindrance that we are discussing?) Then there is clarity, what constitutes right action is seen. In a sense I would say this is action. But often it is followed by the necessary action in the world, in society.

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Sat, 30 May 2020 #12
Thumb_open-uri20151228-18124-1kyi3s7-0 Jose Roberto Moreira Brazil 130 posts in this forum Offline

If I am driving a car and an animal suddenly crosses the road in front of me, I will stop the car immediatelly. This is an action.

An yet there is no choice, no desire to alter the situation, no fear. Actually, there is a choice in the sense that the brain analyses, very fast, all the possibilities and make a decision, for example, whether to deviate or stop, or both. This an intelligent type of choice.

No hindrance to be overcome. I just understand the situation, see the danger and act.

I do not think about the possible consequences, about insurance, etc.

I just put all my energy in that situation.

This post was last updated by Jose Roberto Moreira Sat, 30 May 2020.

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