Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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David Walker's Forum Activity | 9 posts in 1 forum


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Forum: General Discussion Sun, 04 Aug 2013
Topic: Way out of thought?

Arivalagan S wrote: Why does thought seek a way out of itself?

That is a very good question. Just looking at it without trying to find an answer reveals a great deal.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 04 Aug 2013
Topic: Way out of thought?

David Walker wrote:

That is a very good question. Just looking at it without trying to find an answer reveals a great deal.

Satya Prakash wrote:

Can this just looking come into existence without conscious effort?

I would say that if there is conscious effort, that is not 'just looking'.

What is revealed before the next thought comes?

I think the question starts to open up of itself.

What is the significance of the revelation?

Perhaps it's like this: you see 'what is', rather than impose what you think onto the question.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 05 Aug 2013
Topic: Way out of thought?

Satya Prakash wrote:

In what manner does the question start to open up, David? What is the nature of this opening up?

I don't know, Satya. I can only describe what happened to me when I looked at that question yesterday. Normally when one reads comments or questions on this or other forums, one meets them with one's background, i.e. one's conditioning. One agrees or disagrees based on that. All this is rather a narrow, limited process. When I looked at that question yesterday it was as though a vast vista had been opened up, where one saw a thousand implications all at once.

David Walker wrote:

Perhaps it's like this: you see 'what is', rather than impose what you think onto the question.

Satya Prakash wrote:

Why do you think that 'imposition' is different from and/or can not be considered 'what is'?

Well yes, that is another 'what is' in a sense. In which case that can perhaps be gone into, and the original question forgotten for the time being.

Can there be seeing of 'what is' unless there is understanding of the nature of 'imposition' onto the question? Could one by-pass 'imposition' and reach 'what is'?

I think so. Perhaps that is what happened to me yesterday. But it is so easy to deceive oneself in all of this! So let's forget that.

Perhaps one could ask: Why does this ‘seeing without the imposition’ happen so rarely? Is it that we are not vitally interested in all this? You previously mentioned making a conscious effort to look at a question. I think this is what most of us do. But does the man who goes to an important football match in which his team is playing, does he make a conscious effort to watch it? Obviously not. He can’t take his eyes off it! Perhaps most of us are interested in matters concerning self-knowledge only because we think we can get something out of it, i.e. a peaceful, happy life. We are not vitally interested in the thing itself.

What do you say?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 06 Aug 2013
Topic: Way out of thought?

Tom Paine wrote: When we suffer we normally want to escape, or take a pill, if it's physical. So we're not really interested in the thing itself....we want to be rid of it! Only when we're faced with a problem that feels like it's urgent, do we want to stay with it....like war, if our son is drafted into the army for instance....or a loved one who is sick or depressed....if our job is insecure and we fear homelessness, but can't find another....or if we're lonely or anxious and the traditional remedies don't help. Life as most of us know it is full of these kind of urgent problems. When the traditional remedies fail us, then we may begin to look more closely at the 'thing itself' as it's operating in ourselves. But normally we will stick with the traditional approach of trying to get rid of the problem in the manner that we've been taught/conditioned...the division of the 'me'(the observer or analyzer of the problem) vs. 'not me'(the problem)

Yes. So what will shift a human being from escape mode to understanding the thing itself? (I mean regarding psychological issues.) The realization that one can do nothing about it?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 06 Aug 2013
Topic: Way out of thought?

Satya Prakash wrote: Looking at a question, the memory can either react immediately to produce a thought or stay in the 'hold mode' for variable time. If there is already a pleasure giving yearning for 'silence/emptiness' present in memory (a demand of 'me'), then that is what mind will 'create' in the gap where thoughts will sooner or later arise. This is how I look at this emptiness/silence'.

Yes, but cannot the mind be aware of this yearning for silence, which is really but another thought? What I find is that, when one becomes aware of the thinking process, one sees a chain of thoughts, each thought reacting to the previous one. If the cause of a thought is seen, there is an interruption to that chain and a few moments of silence. Then the mind feels triumphant that it has managed to be silent! But that is another thought to be observed. All this is very arduous and requires the energy of vital interest, it seems to me.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 06 Aug 2013
Topic: Way out of thought?

Satya Prakash wrote: David, outward directed awareness finds 'what is' in the outer environment through sense organs. When directed inwardly, it finds 'what is' as thoughts/emotions/feelings or the absence of them as emptiness/silence. Normally, the partial attention is operating in understanding the environment as thoughts/emotions keep distorting/dimming perception by sense organs. Can anything be done about making perception more accurate, efficient and clearer?

You seem to be making a division between the outer and the inner. But is there such a division? Is there any division between seeing a bird on the wing (say) and a thought coming into the mind?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 06 Aug 2013
Topic: Way out of thought?

Satya Prakash wrote: More appropriate question would be " Why do 'imposition cloud seeing' almost all the time?"

As K says, one should always start from 'what is actual'. :)

I agree! :) But perhaps what is actual is that I want to see without the imposition, thus making a division between the two, no?

7 posts  |  Page 1 of 1